't be the -- the difference between tommy thompson and myself couldn't be more clear. he starts with supporting the ryan plan which has massive tax cuts for the very wealthy, $260,000 for the average millionaire like tommy. it pays for it with an increase in the middle income taxes. beyond that, what concerns me the most, and you talked earlier when you asked tommy about compromise. he signedded a pledge to a washington, d.c. lobbyist by the name of groar norquist that commits he'll never ask the wealthy to do more. that is wrong. in order for us to all have a fair shot, we all have to do our fair share. we need balance as we confront this very real and serious problem. >> moderator: following up, you'll get a chance to respond. let me follow-up. is it really, though, enough money there to make a dent in the nation's debt by raising taxes on the wealthy? you can argue there's a fairness issue. people believe that. some people believe that. is there enough there? is there enough there, okay, we're not going to fund wars again. do we get to where we need to get if we don't touch entitlements. baldwin: we can.